Grand Prix race 5/26

[FullTilt]

The normal Thursday race will have an additional class for spinnakers. This class will start AFTER the Under 26 and Over 27 classes. Check the Windjammers website under Racing for more details.

-Bob

[Admin - Bob Adams]

We had light winds last night. The northerly started slowly, diminished almost completely, then came back at the end.

The course was NDN. There were about 15 boats total, with a 5 or 6 boat Grand Prix (spinnaker) class. On Full Tilt we forgot our spinnaker, so we raced in the regular 27+ class.

Our crew was Lori, Tim, Chad, and Joyce. Beer selection included Blue Moon Belgian White, Copper Mountain Ale, Sam Adams, and Michelob Ultra.

[Admin - Bob Adams]

Results for Thursday, May 26th
(corrected for PHRF, according to Fleet Captain)
Course: NDN Wind: N 0-10

Spinnaker (Grand Prix) Class
SECRET
STAND ASIDE
DR. EVIL
TERN
SPITFIRE
BLACK HAWK

27+ Class
DECISION
FULL TILT
SPIRIT
STRAIGHT UP
TIPPECANOE
WINDY
AUDACIOUS

26- Class
ESPERANCE
ANNELIESE
SEARENTY
BRILLIANT DISGUISE
ELFIN
SPQR

[Hugh]

Finally! A Thursday race with official spinnaker use! I'm glad people have come around to the idea... and it seems that all those that participated had fun. Seeing the success (so far) of this idea, could we start considering doing this every week? This would be a great opportunity for those that normally don't race with a chute to try it out - no pressure of an ECSA-scored race to deal with.

H.A. out

[Admin - Bob Adams]

Happily, WSC has scheduled regular spinnaker classes for Thursday races during the regular season for the first time ever.

According to the schedule posted on the WSC website: www.windjammers.org/WSC_Calendar_03.pdf, we'll have spinnaker races on June 23rd, July 28th, August 25th, and September 15th. Not to mention the unofficial OK that spinnakers are allowed for the last several weeks of the season, through the last Thursday of September.

I know there's interest in having a chute class every week, along with PHRF scoring, similar to what the Branford Yacht Club does. Change comes slowly, but it does happen. Especially when there's active and dedicated Windjammers who are interested in seeing these changes made. So this season we'll see how it goes, and maybe next year we'll have a weekly spinnaker class. Especially if all you Windjammers out there let the board of directors know how much they enjoy the new arrangement.

For now, I think it's great we're doing this. I was also pleasantly surprised to see last week's race ranked according to PHRF rating (even though we took line honors in the over 27' class on "Full Tilt", we ended up with 2nd place after the time was corrected...oh, well!)

If this is going to be the way we're going to run the races from now on, it'd be great to let all our Thursday RC crews know, so they'll not only take down finish order, but also time of day they finish (as shown on the GPS unit we all have) to allow PHRF results to be figured.

Just my 2 cents here...various opinions are welcome, of course.

[TENSPEED]

Scoring last Thursday night's race was very easy to do. I was planning on only scoring GP night and WAH but with all the postive feedback from Windjammers members which I expecting this might be something to consider. Great idea with the forum Bob...

Nick

[tippecanoe]

I like the idea of scoring. However, are their boats who don't want to be scored? Is there a way for them to opt-out of being scored? It is my understanding that Windjammers used to be laid back and less competitive ... would scoring intimidate less competitive boats from participating?

Harland

[Admin - Bob Adams]

Hi Harland,

Thanks for the thoughts, but I don't really see how having a non-binding scoring system would intimidate casual racers.

Basically, we've been running the races and posting order of finish anyway; we've done that for several years now. With a scored race, most of those who aren't that serious about racing would probably finish higher on corrected finishing times, since the fastest PHRF boats in the fleet tend to be the most serious about racing anyway.

If anything, it might encourage more folks to participate because they'll have a more even playing field in which to compete; then they can choose how hard they want to work at a race.

It's a bit frustrating to sail a perfect race (I would imagine...it's never happened yet on "Full Tilt") and get beaten across the line by a boat that has a rating that's 25 seconds faster than yours. Without a handicap, you don't know how you really placed.

If Thursdays are looked upon as being practice for weekend races, wouldn't it be more realistic to see how we place in relation to boats with different ratings? And if a competitor doesn't want to race seriously, then they don't have to. It's fun out there regardless of how competitive you are. :)

[spirit]

No question these races should be scored corrected. All you have to do is check in with the committee boat and shout out your rating. Or perhaps the club should have a list in the box of all member boats and ratings. i guess this requires participants to join ecsa and actually GET a rating but I dont see that as the end of the world and the majority already do this anyway.

Conversly I would like to see the division split by rating rather then size. I rate 177 and the boat is a 28. Most of my competition is in the under 26 and I know if I started with them as many have sugested there would be discussion.

Regardless I doubt anything much will change this season. But it would be nice if windjammers had an actual series which I believe is the norm. it's a bit more work but I for one would be happy to help. Send me the times or the fleet captain. you will have the scores next day. Again the confusion would be who's who and what do they rate.

Nice to have this forum though..a voice is a good thing. Thanks for that.

[tippecanoe]

Bob,

To me, personally, I like that the races are scored. I had a conversation w/ someone a year ago at one of the socials ... he didn't mind that boats were becoming more competitive but there was a comment he made about how he felt that Thursday nights should be geared for people who just wanted to get out and sail.

I figured there were/are more people like him who didn't know about the forum so I thought I'd bring it up.

Harland

[Admin - Bob Adams]

I see what you're saying, and yeah there definitely are some boats that want to just go out and have fun on Thursdays.

I'm just saying that, typically, the laid-back boats tend to mosey their way over the starting line behind all the gung-ho boats anyway, so it probably wouldn't make much difference to them even if the races ARE scored. They're not very likely to mix it up with the insane kamakazi boats (and you KNOW who you are!) for line position anyway.

They'll STILL be able to have fun and round the bouys; and the more serious racers will benefit from seeing how their boats perform against the folks they'll be competing against on the weekends.

We can encourage new racers to continue to enjoy racing by letting them know they're absolutely welcome even if they're not concerned with race results. We'd like to keep everyone happy, and there's no reason we can't include the laid-back crowd along with our more "focused" competitors.

[Hugh]

w00t - another thursday race... kudos to mr. larry. too bad it wasn't a GP night... would have been great.

handicapping results would be GREAT. no excuse nowadays with GPS and all. it would be nice to see how everyone REALLY places.

HA out.

[ktisdall]

Re: Chutes on Thursdays.

Part of the reason for not allowing chutes on Thursdays is to reduce the intimidation factor for new racers.

Even if they start behind, mark roundings on many of the nights can be hairy - even with no chutes. Many of the 'racers' don't really know the rules. Some that know the rules refuse to give anyone a break on the racecourse. This is simply dangerous for all and terrifying for newbies. I personally know two boats that refuse to sail due to the aggressive fleet. Others don't want to do RC for the same reason.

The simple fact is that the courses we sail on Thursdays are too small to let the boats spread out enough. We are beginning to see a lot of really big, really fast boats on Thursdays. A downwind leg for them may last only a few minutes. And even the slower boats are only a few minutes behind, mixed up in the large non-spin boats. We sail near hazards like Charles I and Welches and Pont Points. Coming in fast and going wide around a mark (E, W, P) are not good options for many.

GP nights are a test. We'll see how it goes. How the experienced guys like it and how it affects the non-experienced. It was a great night to try it on 5/26. Let's see how it goes when the wind is blowing.

Our main concern on Thursdays SHOULD be to get everyone with a sailboat out to try racing in a non-threatening setting. Fostering that setting is not only a legacy and a safety issue, it's a way to keep the sport from dying.

--Kevin

[ctremo]

regarding scoring for the thursday night series, and the GP nights:

scoring, handicapped or not, is a fine thing. it could be handled with the
accuracy, transparency and professionalism of our typical weekend regattas. WSC has
used a very simple spreadsheet for years. the spread sheet shows start time,
phrf rating, and finish time for all competitors. this allows everyone to know
that they were timed and scored correctly.

but there is at least two things that might come along with scoring:
protests, and hearing the protests.

about once a month we have two boats collide on the course - if the involved
parties want to be scored correctly they might have a right to protest. currently
we don't have a process for hearing the protest and correctly scoring the finish
for these boats.

for the very competitive racers, protesting is often an actively used racing strategy.
and conversely for mid/lower tier racers, protesting is rarely done.

of course i'd like to hear opinions about how scoring can be balanced with allowing
protests, especially considering the wide range of racing skills present on the race
course on the average thursday night.

cheers
ct

[ktisdall]

The other thing we would need to provide scores would be accurate finish times.

With our all-volunteer RC it is sometimes very difficult to get a good list of how the boats finished, let alone accurate times.

Unless we don't care that much about accuracy, but then why bother to score.....?

--Kevin

[Admin - Bob Adams]

Two things...re: protests; I think people will forego protests if we don't go to the extreme of making Thursday nights part of a season-long series, where trophies will be awarded for best finishers. If we simply time the races for that night's results, there really won't be anything worth protesting for.

Re: timing accuracy...most boats carry GPS's. The RC can appoint one person to be the scorekeeper and record the displayed time of day on the GPS for start times of all the classes, and for each boat's finish time. And if the RC boat doesn't have enough people to run the race AND record the times, it doesn't get done. But it's fun to see the results if we DO have the race properly timed.

[bd40865]

not that it matters but, brilliant disguise actually started with the 27+ class.
Cheers,
Mike

27+ Class
DECISION
FULL TILT
SPIRIT
STRAIGHT UP
TIPPECANOE
WINDY
AUDACIOUS

26- Class
ESPERANCE
ANNELIESE
SEARENTY
BRILLIANT DISGUISE
ELFIN
SPQR
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